Another EV Rookie on the Road
What follows is a (long!) series of email exchanged between myself and
the Electric Vehicle Discussion List.
Subject: Another EV Rookie On The Road
Sent: 07/20/97 10:33 AM
To: EV Mailing List, EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU
The Introduction
----------------
For years, I have wanted an electric car. I've been reading the EV list
for at least a year, and between the EV list and EAA folks, I finally felt
I knew enough to own and maintain a conversion. Thanks to this list, my
eyes no longer glaze over with incomprehension at things like DC-DC
converters, K&W chargers, and I know enough physics to *never*, *ever*
suggest hooking a generator up to the wheels to charge the batteries....
:-)
I'm not crazy enough to perform my own conversion: on the recommendation
of several folks, I called up Mike Slominski of Mike's Auto Care. He was
very helpful before, during, and now after the conversion.
I'm now the proud owner of a white, 96 volt, 85 VW cabriolet. Nothing
fancy, won't win any races or car shows, but it will get me through my
daily 7 mile commute in quiet, emission-free comfort: the perfect second
car for my household.
The War Story
-------------
Between Mike's Auto Care and my house are 31 miles and three hills: one
on the San Mateo bridge (a long, tall bridge in the San Francisco, CA Bay
Area), and two 1/2-block hills in my neighborhood. The bridge pretty much
wiped out my batteries: the SOC meter showed I had blown half my charge
just getting to the top. I let the batteries rest as I coasted down the
other half of the bridge. I think I had a slight tailwind, too...
Halfway to the top of the bridge, a piece of road dirt landed squarely on
my tachometer's opitcal sensor. All of a sudden my tach drive stopped
counting fan blades, and I drove the rest of the way home relying on the
shift points Mike Slominski recommended. It was quite a new experience to
be going 55 MPH in 3rd gear.
25 miles and 30 minutes later...
The hills in my neighborhood are *steep*: 15-20% grade. By the time I got
to the first one, the SOC meter was pretty much stuck at zero: I knew I
was in trouble. In first gear, I crept up the hill at 10 MPH, slowing to
a crawl just as the hill crested and I coasted down to the next hill.
Some diabolical civic planner stuck a stop sign at the beginning of the
second hill. All my beautiful kinetic energy wasted! So with warm brake
pads and 16 dead batteries, I attempted to creep up the last hill before
my house. I can see my nice, flat street from here! 25 feet up the hill,
the batteries gave up and my car stopped all forward motion. And started
backwards motion. ACK! BRAKES! Thank goodness my spouse was running
behind me in a chase vehicle, Just In Case. Within a few moments of
confused hand signals, my now oomph-impaired Rabbit received a slow
bumper-to-bumper push up the remaining 50 feet of hill. As the hill
crested, I rolled under my own miniscule power into my garage and plugged
in.
I made it. 31 miles, steep hills, and a halfway-broken-in battery pack:
pretty good range.
The Technical Question
----------------------
I don't think I'll be driving the Rabbit to work on Monday: it's not
charging! Why? Because the GFI on my K&W charger blows whenever I try to
dial up any significant amperage (anything over 1.1 amps on the K&W meter).
Right now the charger is happily charging my pack at 1.1 amps on the meter,
when it should be pumping at least 7 or 8 amps from my garage's 15 amp
grounded circuit.
I cannot believe that my one 30-mile trip home was enough to wet down the
battery tops and cause a short. I checked them out, wiped them off, and
don't see any conductive path from a terminal to the battery box. Didn't
help. GFI still throws at 1.5 amps..
So now my beautiful new electric rabbit sits in my garage, charging at a
rate so slow that cockroaches will rule the planet before I have a
complete charge. Tomorrow morning I'll go down to the garage with some
baking soda and wipe down the tops again. I can't think of anything else
that would be shorting out the GFI.
I'm still naive...er...optimistic enough to believe that I'll have the
tach and charging problems fixed before next Saturday, when I can
(finally) drive electric to my local East SF Bay EAA meeting.
--Z
--
Zig Zichterman ziggr@nospam.best.com http://www.best.com/~ziggr
"You think she'd mention that her friend is
taller than most pine trees." --Gabrielle
Subject: Another EV Rookie in the Garage
Sent: 07/21/97 2:19 PM
Received: 07/21/97 3:21 PM
From: Zig Zichterman, ziggr@best.com
Reply-To: EV Mailing List, EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list EV, EV@SJSUVM1.BITNET
Thanks for the helpful (and occasionally humbling) notes.
My newly-converted 85 Cabriolet wouldn't charge. So I spent several hours
running around the house, checking different outlets for proper polarity
and ground, and trying to charge off them. Didn't matter which properly
grounded, correct-polarity outlet I chose: the K&W charger's GFI breaker
would throw as soon as I dialed up any amperage past about 1 amp.
Then a helpful note from Mike Brown suggested physically separating the
battery racks from the battery tops with some wedges of wood. Brilliant
idea. I ran down to my garage, grabbed my rachet, and attempted to loosen
the battery rack. Okay, so the rachet won't reach the nuts with 1" of
bolt sticking up through the nut. I'll use pliers. Bad idea. The two rear
nuts on my battery rack have almost *no* clearance. I loosened the rear
nuts 1/6 turn at a time, bruising knuckles and coming up with new and
creative ways to string four letter words together.
After I loosened the battery rack top and slipped in a few pieces of wood
to keep it lifted off the batteries, I plugged in my car. Rear battery
box fan switched on, K&W Charger fan running. Sounds good so far. I
reached in to my Cabriolet's oh-so-spacious trunk and slowly turned up
the amperage, expecting the GFI to "clunk" around 1.1 amps. 1 amp...2
amps...3 amps...8 amps..(!)...12 amps! YEAH! Figuring I'd better get some
charge back into these batteries (they'd sat deeply discharged for over
36 hours by now), I let them sit and charge while I went back into the
house to tell Mike's Auto Care the good news.
15 minutes later, my garage's 15 amp circuit breaker blew (figures), so I
reset it, ran downstairs, and lowered the charge rate to 8 amps. An hour
or so later, the circuit breaker blew again. Okay, so maybe the K&W's 8
amp reading is only an average. Maybe something else is on the circuit
that I don't know about (time to find out). Maybe I'll need to wire up an
alarm to let me know when the breaker throws, so that my overnight charge
doesn't fail in the middle of the night.
After a while, I decided to take a look at the battery tops and the rack:
just where was the conductive path? I found a puddle of moisture and some
white gunk underneath a spot on the rack where the powdercoat no longer
was. Maybe that's the path. So I wiped off the rack, battery tops, and
sides. I had to loosen and rotate my fusible link just to get under the
rack on one side (more tight clearances and bruised knuckles: is
everybody else using a wrench I don't know about?). Dried everything off,
lowered the rack, plugged in the car. *Klunk* goes the GFI. Drats. Up
comes the rack, in goes the pieces of wood, reset the GFI. No klunk. Let
it charge that way for the rest of the day.
At this point, I think I'm going to need a permanent insulator between
the batteries and rack top. I figure some thin, 1/2" wide strips of
polypropelene all around the 4 sides of the rack ought to do it. There's
got to be a plastics shop somewhere near work. Sounds like a great excuse
to drive my car during tomorrow's lunch hour.
--Z
--
Zig Zichterman ziggr@nospam.best.com http://www.best.com/~ziggr
"If the world thinks it knows death and destruction now,
wait till they get a load of me!" --Ares, "The Xena Scrolls"
Another EV Rookie in the Garage
Subject: Re: Your new EV Rabbit / K&W trouble
Sent: 07/21/97 3:20 PM
To: Chuck Hursch, gandhi!chuck@uunet.uu.net
>Enjoyed reading about your new EV. It reminded me of the steep learning
>curve I hit the first few months of owning my Rabbit EV (it's still
>quite steep ;-)), but fun.
Hey, glad to contribute...
I almost fell out of my chair laughing when you mentioned Scott
Cornell's windex-as-a-cleaner suggestion. Last night, I tore all
through the house looking for a spray bottle that I could load up
with water and baking soda. I gave up, muttering something like
"great, all we have is this half-full Windex bottle?" Just a bit
*too* ironic. I'm sure when I mention this to my spouse tonight
(degree in chemistry), my spouse will look at me with the "what,
are you, an idiot?" expression: "It's ammonia, Zig. You figure it
out." And people say high school chemistry isn't useful...
Turns out that cleaning was exactly the problem. There was a
conductive path from one of the 4 batteries in the front rack
(the rack that's 2x2, not the spread-out rack in front). There's
a bare spot where the powdercoat failed/was scratched/eaten through.
There's enough conductivity on the surface of my batteries, even
after cleaning, that I may just insert some polypropelene strips
under the rack top. Right now I have wood shims keeping the rack
off the batteries so that I can get some charge into them. They've
sat deeply discharged for 36 hours, with only a 1 amp trickle
charge between them and the battery graveyard. I think they'll be
OK, but I might have lost a month or two of battery life with this
little learning experience...
>From the sounds of it, your car may be configured quite similarly to mine.
>96V is the same, mine has 8 US2300s each front and rear, metal powder-
>coated racks in the front.
Definitely. Same old Electro Automotive Voltsrabbit kit. There must
be a thousand of them on the road by now.
>My range was miserable at first, like 25 miles
I got 31 miles on my first run. Mike Brown put it best:
Your maiden voyage had very good range, considering the green
batteries, green driver, and steep hills. It will steadily
improve with use.
I've got pretty good radial tires with lotsa tread left on them,
so I'll wear them down before I hunt down some Invictas. Mike
Slominski inflated them all up to 40 psi. He'd go higher, but for
some reason, I have one oddball tire with a lower max psi rating
(previous owner must have replaced a flat with a different tire).
Pushing the rabbit around the garage is truly amazing: only takes
one hand, and I barely break a sweat. It's hard to imagine what
even *lower* rolling resistance will be like one day.
I drove most of the way home at 50-55 MPH in 3rd gear. That was a
*wierd* experience, since I had driven the rabbit before with its
gas engine, and 55 in 3rd would have set off the shift warning
buzzer and shaken the poor little rabbit to pieces (ever look through
the rear view mirror of a rabbit at 55 MPH? :-) Kept the RPMs up above
5000 most of the way, which kept the current draw at 100-200 amps when
cruising. I think it was this 5000+ RPM travel that got me enough range
to tackle the drive home as well as I did.
Actually, my K&W's volts are cranked all the way up right now, because
the guy who converted the car (Brad, at Mike's Auto Care) wanted to make
sure the batteries were fully charged for my trip home. I have to go
down to my garage after dinner tonight to lower the voltage once the
pack's charged. I expect there will be much bubbling and sulfur/eggs
smell when I go down tonight.
>So I hope my rookie experiences (and I'm still a rookie!) help you and
>others. I hope to see you at a EAA meeting (East Bay may be closest to
>you).
They certainly helped me. You and the other folks on the list have
been extremely helpful in ramping me up for EV ownership. The EAA
folks at the East Bay chapter have also been instrumental (that's
where I first heard about Mike's Auto Care). I hope to drive to this
Saturday's meeting in my shiny new EV, where they can all look at it
and nonchalantly mutter "oh, another old voltsrabbit..." It's hard to
make a voltsrabbit look exciting when there are 3 prototype Zebras
sitting in the hangar, and these guys regularly spin tires as part of
their job... :-)
Thanks for the help. I'm gonna go assault my pack with some Windex.
--Z
--
Zig Zichterman ziggr@nospam.best.com http://www.best.com/~ziggr
"Can we cook with your juices?" --Gabrielle, "A Day in the Life"
Subject: Another EV Rookie in the Garage
Sent: 07/21/97 2:19 PM
Received: 07/21/97 3:21 PM
From: Zig Zichterman, ziggr@best.com
Reply-To: EV Mailing List, EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list EV, EV@SJSUVM1.BITNET
Thanks for the helpful (and occasionally humbling) notes.
My newly-converted 85 Cabriolet wouldn't charge. So I spent several hours
running around the house, checking different outlets for proper polarity
and ground, and trying to charge off them. Didn't matter which properly
grounded, correct-polarity outlet I chose: the K&W charger's GFI breaker
would throw as soon as I dialed up any amperage past about 1 amp.
Then a helpful note from Mike Brown suggested physically separating the
battery racks from the battery tops with some wedges of wood. Brilliant
idea. I ran down to my garage, grabbed my rachet, and attempted to loosen
the battery rack. Okay, so the rachet won't reach the nuts with 1" of
bolt sticking up through the nut. I'll use pliers. Bad idea. The two rear
nuts on my battery rack have almost *no* clearance. I loosened the rear
nuts 1/6 turn at a time, bruising knuckles and coming up with new and
creative ways to string four letter words together.
After I loosened the battery rack top and slipped in a few pieces of wood
to keep it lifted off the batteries, I plugged in my car. Rear battery
box fan switched on, K&W Charger fan running. Sounds good so far. I
reached in to my Cabriolet's oh-so-spacious trunk and slowly turned up
the amperage, expecting the GFI to "clunk" around 1.1 amps. 1 amp...2
amps...3 amps...8 amps..(!)...12 amps! YEAH! Figuring I'd better get some
charge back into these batteries (they'd sat deeply discharged for over
36 hours by now), I let them sit and charge while I went back into the
house to tell Mike's Auto Care the good news.
15 minutes later, my garage's 15 amp circuit breaker blew (figures), so I
reset it, ran downstairs, and lowered the charge rate to 8 amps. An hour
or so later, the circuit breaker blew again. Okay, so maybe the K&W's 8
amp reading is only an average. Maybe something else is on the circuit
that I don't know about (time to find out). Maybe I'll need to wire up an
alarm to let me know when the breaker throws, so that my overnight charge
doesn't fail in the middle of the night.
After a while, I decided to take a look at the battery tops and the rack:
just where was the conductive path? I found a puddle of moisture and some
white gunk underneath a spot on the rack where the powdercoat no longer
was. Maybe that's the path. So I wiped off the rack, battery tops, and
sides. I had to loosen and rotate my fusible link just to get under the
rack on one side (more tight clearances and bruised knuckles: is
everybody else using a wrench I don't know about?). Dried everything off,
lowered the rack, plugged in the car. *Klunk* goes the GFI. Drats. Up
comes the rack, in goes the pieces of wood, reset the GFI. No klunk. Let
it charge that way for the rest of the day.
At this point, I think I'm going to need a permanent insulator between
the batteries and rack top. I figure some thin, 1/2" wide strips of
polypropelene all around the 4 sides of the rack ought to do it. There's
got to be a plastics shop somewhere near work. Sounds like a great excuse
to drive my car during tomorrow's lunch hour.
--Z
--
Zig Zichterman ziggr@nospam.best.com http://www.best.com/~ziggr
"If the world thinks it knows death and destruction now,
wait till they get a load of me!" --Ares, "The Xena Scrolls"
Another EV Rookie in the Garage
Subject: Re: Another EV Rookie in the Garage
Sent: 07/21/97 3:43 PM
Received: 07/21/97 4:13 PM
From: Bill Dube', bdube@BOULDER.NIST.GOV
Reply-To: EV Mailing List, EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list EV, EV@SJSUVM1.BITNET
>My newly-converted 85 Cabriolet wouldn't charge.
Sooo, the Wabbit has another sibling. When is the monster stereo
going in?
>Then a helpful note from Mike Brown suggested physically separating the
>battery racks from the battery tops with some wedges of wood. Brilliant
>idea. I ran down to my garage, grabbed my rachet, and attempted to loosen
>the battery rack. Okay, so the rachet won't reach the nuts with 1" of
>bolt sticking up through the nut. I'll use pliers. Bad idea. The two rear
>nuts on my battery rack have almost *no* clearance. I loosened the rear
>nuts 1/6 turn at a time, bruising knuckles and coming up with new and
>creative ways to string four letter words together.
Would you like a copy of my post "Working on cars" from several
month's ago. A perfect car care session includes not only skinned knunckles,
but a burn from the drop light, hitting your head, used gear lube in your
hair, and getting something in your eye. Also, you must discover that you
have the wrong part monents after the store closed.
This may be obvious, but you might want to pick up a set of deep
sockets tomorrow. Buying tools is almost as satisfing as already having the
right tool for the job. I have found that the frequency of profanity is
inversely proportional to the number of tools available. Often, the right
tool makes the job very easy. In any case, having many tools to try in
sequence spreads out the frustration to a managable increments. If the item
is particulary stubborn, "getting even" with the car by using an air chisel
or a cutting torch on the offending part is a great stress reducer.
>
>15 minutes later, my garage's 15 amp circuit breaker blew (figures), so I
>reset it, ran downstairs, and lowered the charge rate to 8 amps. An hour
>or so later, the circuit breaker blew again. Okay, so maybe the K&W's 8
>amp reading is only an average. Maybe something else is on the circuit
>that I don't know about (time to find out). Maybe I'll need to wire up an
>alarm to let me know when the breaker throws, so that my overnight charge
>doesn't fail in the middle of the night.
I seem to recall that the K&W is a constant current type charger
with a set voltage limit. If I am correct in this, the current that the
charger draws from the wall will increase as the pack charges. The wall
current will max out just shy of the flip over from constant current to
constant voltage. This is not the smartest way to design a charger for use
with 120 volt input. If you sett the charger current to near the trip point
at the beginning of the charge, you are certain to tri[ the breaker before
the charge is complete.
It would be smarter to set the max input current and the max output
voltage and let the output current do whatever. This would charge the pack
in the shortest time possible with a limited supply ampacity.
>
>At this point, I think I'm going to need a permanent insulator between
>the batteries and rack top. I figure some thin, 1/2" wide strips of
>polypropelene all around the 4 sides of the rack ought to do it. There's
>got to be a plastics shop somewhere near work. Sounds like a great excuse
>to drive my car during tomorrow's lunch hour.
The polypropelene sounds like an excellent solution to your problem.
In yesterday's post, you gave an account of running the pack down to
the point that the car would no longer move. This is a lot like driving an
ICE with the oil light on. It is a very, very, nasty thing to do to your
pack. The lowest you should run them down other than in an emergecy, is 1.7
volts per cell under load. This would be about 80 volts for your pack.
When you start to get low, hunt for a plug. This is a good way to
meet new people. Yesterday, I drove the Wabbit quite some distance. Rather
than push the pack, (the Wabbit would have made the whole trip with about
20% left) I stopped and had lunch at Applebee's. I chose the resturaunt
because there was a plug by an empty parking spot. I just plugged in and
went inside. I arrived home with about 35% charge in the pack and I didn't
have to egg-foot at all.
_ /|
\'o.O'
=(___)=
U
Bill Dube'
bdube@boulder.nist.gov
Re: Another EV Rookie in the Garage
Subject: Re: Another EV Rookie in the Garage
Sent: 07/21/97 7:11 PM
Received: 07/21/97 7:30 PM
From: LEE A HART, XURQ03A@prodigy.com
Reply-To: EV Mailing List, EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list EV, EV@SJSUVM1.BITNET
To Zig Zichterman (and other poor souls with a K&W):
After spending thousands of dollars on a wonderful EV, why spoil it with a
non-isolated charger? May I suggest you go out and get yourself a nice
isolation transformer? They only cost $50-$100 new, and are widely available
for much less used or surplus. Advantages:
- Isolated output; safer, no more shock hazard, no GFI trips
- battery cleanliness won't stop charging
- higher efficiency and better power factor, by adjusting output voltage
with transformer, instead of entirely with phase control
- less noise; transformers reduce radio/TV interference from phase control
- easily provides 120v or 240v input or output
- easy to boost line voltage to make up for low voltage, lossy cords, etc.
- use for any project any time there is a shock hazard; troubleshooting,
using electrical equipment in wet locations, etc.
- if you don't like the weight, leave it home where you do 90% of
your charging anyway.
Just a few examples:
- Marlin P. Jones 561-848-8236 stock# 8687-TR, 100/115/200/230vac input,
115vac 1kw output, 22 lbs, $59.95.
- Brigar Electronics 607-723-3111, #XE630S13, 200/208/230/380/460vac input,
115vac 3kw output, 73 lbs, $99.95.
- C&H 800-325-9465, #TR9701, 120vac input, 114/117/120/123/126vac 5kw output,
60 lbs, $89.50.
- Burden Surplus Center 800-488-3407, #15-1048, dual 120vac input, 120vac
1.2kw output, 28 lbs, $39.95.
Lee Hart If you would not be forgotten
4209 France Ave. N. Soon as you are dead and rotten
Robbinsdale, MN 55422 USA Either write things worth the reading
phone (612) 533-3226 Or do things worthy of the writing
e-mail XURQ03A@prodigy.com (Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac)
Re: Another EV Rookie in the Garage
Subject: re Your new EV Rabbit / K&W trouble
Sent: 07/21/97 9:53 PM
Received: 07/21/97 11:10 PM
From: Bob Wing, bobwing@NBN.COM
Reply-To: EV Mailing List, EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list EV, EV@SJSUVM1.BITNET
Hi, I forward a copy of Zig's Hills story to Chuck Hursch, he is not on teh
EV List at the moment so here is his response those woes of yours and
others on the list.
Hi Zig,
Enjoyed reading about your new EV. It reminded me of the steep learning
curve I hit the first few months of owning my Rabbit EV (it's still
quite steep ;-)), but fun.
>From the sounds of it, your car may be configured quite similarly to mine.
96V is the same, mine has 8 US2300s each front and rear, metal powder-
coated racks in the front.
My range was miserable at first, like 25 miles, and the pack would give
up at about 25%SOC. It stayed that way for a good 3 or 4 months.
Started asking for help. The people and answers that started pushing
that range up to 40-50 miles:
Scott Cornell, East Bay EAA:
I did not have Goodyear Invictas to start, but rather the
original 155x13 tires. I had originally pumped these to
36psi or so, Scott indicated 42psi. So I did this for
a year till I got my Invictas mounted on new rims
(pressurized to 45-50psi). Scott indicated to also go
50-55mph in 3rd gear, as opposed to 4th, to keep the motor
in its most efficient range.
Mike Slominski:
I entered the 1995 SFBEAR Rally with trepidation, since I
had never done 48mi on a single charge, and my range started
going back down again after my first watering of the
batteries. Mike suggested when I was charging my car in the
hanger the night before the rally to just crank the K&W
voltage knob (the right one) full clockwise. When I came back
in the morning, the batteries were really boiling. You could
see the bubbles coming up the insides of the cases. Up to
then, I had been very careful to bring the batteries in at
120V (7.5V/cell). Since then, I have learned that the flooded-
cell batteries like to be charged vigorously, and brought to
7.8V/cell. For awhile, I did that on every charge for about
1/2 to 1 hour. I am now doing it a little differently, and
bringing them in at 121-122V, with the 7.8V (or whatever
I can get, depending on how warm the battery is) equalization
occuring every couple of weeks. I think this latter strategy
is more in line with Trojan's (Kitty Rodden) recommendations.
When I was bringing them in at 120V all the time, I suspect
that some of the batteries weren't getting fully charged, and
the electrolyte was stratifying. By the way, I completed the
rally, albeit with a 45 minute charge part way through, but
reached the end with plenty of juice.
I have also noted that if the batteries are being used and cycled
frequently, they tend to have greater capacity. I have read it's use
them and "expand" them, or lose them. When I was using them quite
heavily last summer, I did 50-60 miles several times, and pushed a best
of 72 miles. I drove from Redwood City back to Larkspur here in Marin,
and still had enough to make it up my very steep hill after 50 miles.
However, I apparently damaged a battery in all that that had to be
replaced later. You have to be careful when you're charging in series
that a battery does not fall behind and become damaged. I think the
Rabbits are capable of doing 80-100 miles if everything becomes
optimized, including the driver.
Regarding your K&W and battery cleaning, I learned a nice way to clean
from Scott Cornell using Windex. The Windex is slightly alkaloid (or
opposite of the acidic PH gunk that tends to accumulate on your
batteries over time), so it cleans and neutralizes the battery tops. I
spray the Windex on and wipe them off once a month. I have never used
baking soda. Last summer I ran into the GFI-tripping problem with my
K&W. By convention, I check the voltage between the most-positive post
(battery 11+ in my car) to the hatch latch monthly. My car had been
towed behind a dirty ICE car, and the tops of my front batteries got a
lot of carbon and dirt on them. 11+ to hatch went to 100V, although it
had been building up slowly over a month or two. Cleaned the tops as
normal, and still 100V. So I had to find where the leakage was. I
noted that the "phantom" voltage seemed to build, or get larger, the
further away I got from the most-negative post, which is on the #5
battery up front. I de-cabled the front pack, and the only battery
that had a voltage leak to the car frame was #5. Some crud had built
up where it was very hard to clean underneath a cable in the corner. I
cleaned very carefully, but firmly, several times, and finally the
stray voltage went away. I then rechecked the voltages as I recabled
the pack, and the stray voltage stayed very close to 0. Bingo! Happy
K&W! Your alternative is to use an isolated charger such as the Zivan,
but an ironic benefit of the K&W is that it keeps you honest in keeping
your batteries clean.
I remember at last fall's SVEAA Rally, Mike Slominski ran into a
problem with his K&W's GFI tripping. It turned out to be some carbon
tracking in his motor. In your case, Zig, since your car is pretty
new, it may be a mechanical problem, such as a bare wire touching the
frame of the car, rather than dirty batteries.
Also, keep those discharged batteries under some sort of charge till
you get the situation figured out. Otherwise, if they sit deeply
discharged for long, you'll damage or destroy them.
So I hope my rookie experiences (and I'm still a rookie!) help you and
others. I hope to see you at a EAA meeting (East Bay may be closest to
you).
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
EAA - North Bay chapter
Your new EV Rabbit / K&W trouble
re Your new EV Rabbit / K&W trouble
Subject: Another EV Rookie Fully Charged
Sent: 07/22/97 8:53 PM
Received: 07/23/97 6:18 AM
From: Zig Zichterman, ziggr@best.com
Reply-To: EV Mailing List, EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list EV, EV@SJSUVM1.BITNET
Thanks to the helpful folks on this list, my EV Rabbit is fully charged
and ready for its first daily work commute tomorrow: 15 miles roundtrip,
only a couple steep hills. I should even have enough charge for a
coworker joyride at lunchtime. I'm both eager with anticipation, and
nervous about my first Real Life Test.
After charging at 8 amps all evening, my 96V pack of US2300s was at 107V
and climbing. I *really* didn't want it to hit 120V at 3am while I slept
(it would have boiled unattended for 4 hours!), so I dialed down to 3
amps and went to bed. In the morning, I ramped up to 10 amps and read 117
amps. Almost up to the target 120V. Those batteries were definitely
sizzling: the front of my car sounded like bacon on a hot griddle. By the
time I was ready to leave for work, the pack was at 119.7V. Close enough.
I unplugged the car and drove my gas car to work (I didn't have time to
re-attach my GFI-tripping front battery racks, and no way would I drive
around with batteries unfastened).
This evening, I came home, fastened down the front battery racks, and
closed up the hood and trunk. All ready for tomorrow's drive. After
sitting unplugged during the day, my pack voltage read 107V. I imagine
that will drop down to 96V the second I start turning the motor tomorrow
morning.
I'm curious: how long should I let the batteries boil at 120V and high
amps? After I'm done boiling, should I leave the car plugged in, trickle
charging at 1 amp, or just unplug the car? I'm worried about boiling
away all my battery acid.
I'm also curious: just how high up should the battery water be in
US2300s? Currently I've got enough water in there to cover the plates,
but there's quite a gap between the top of the plates and the top of the
batteries. Fill to the top of the battery case?
After thinking about it for a while, I realize that I must be acting just
like a new parent: I know nothing about what my car's "normal" state is,
so everything seems abnormal and cause to call the pediatrician.
Pediatricians are probably extremely patient people.
--Z
--
Zig Zichterman ziggr@nospam.best.com http://www.best.com/~ziggr
"Can we cook with your juices?" --Gabrielle
Another EV Rookie Fully Charged
Subject: Re: Another EV Rookie Fully Charged
Sent: 07/23/97 10:24 AM
Received: 07/23/97 10:00 AM
From: LEE A HART, XURQ03A@prodigy.com
Reply-To: EV Mailing List, EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list EV, EV@SJSUVM1.BITNET
>How long should I let the batteries boil at 120V and high amps?
*NO* time! Only run low currents at voltages above gassing voltages, or you
will have a tremendous amount of gassing, water usage, and acid misting.
You can run any current you like below gassing voltage (2.4v/cell, or 115v for
your 96v pack). Above 115v, I suggest that you keep the current under about 5 am
ps.
My general rules for charging flooded batteries:
- Recharge when between 50% and 80% of the battery capacity has been used.
- Charge at maximum current until 2.4v/cell (115v for 96v pack).
- Then hold voltage at 2.4v/cell until current drops to 2% of rated amp-hrs
(5 amps for USB 2300s).
Then once a month, or whenever there is a significant difference between
battery voltages (like over 0.1v), perform an equalizing charge:
- after charging as above, keep charging at 2% of rated amp-hours (5 amps)
until voltage stops climbing (2.5-2.6v/cell, or 120-125v for a 96v pack).
Since you ran your pack very dead, it would be a good idea to check the voltage
of each battery after charging and letting them sit for several hours. Being
new 6v batteries, they should match within +/-0.05 volts. If they don't, you
may have damaged or reversed a cell.
Water level should be above the plates and below the ring at the bottom of the
tube the vent cap plugs into. Add water *after* charging.
Lee Hart Bubble, bubble, little batt
4209 France Ave. N. How I wonder where you're at
Robbinsdale, MN 55422 USA Charging voltage oh so high
phone (612) 533-3226 Shot a vent cap in my eye
e-mail XURQ03A@prodigy.com (ouch)
Re: Another EV Rookie Fully Charged
Subject: Another EV Rookie Discovers Hills
Sent: 07/23/97 9:40 PM
Received: 07/24/97 7:08 AM
From: Zig Zichterman, ziggr@best.com
Reply-To: EV Mailing List, EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list EV, EV@SJSUVM1.BITNET
Subject: Another EV Rookie Discovers Hills
Sent: 07/23/97 9:35 PM
To: EV Mailing List, EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU
My first official electric commute!
Apparently the weather gods have a sense of humor. It was grey and
drizzly all day long. Being the spoiled California native that I am, I
ignored the grey and drove with the top down. If I drive fast enough, the
airflow around the car keeps me dry. I kept telling myself that as my
head got wetter and wetter...
Fashion tip: don't drive to work with the top down right after washing
your hair. I think I scared the receptionist when I walked into the
office with my "new do." I gotta remember a hat for tomorrow's drive.
The electric rabbit drove to work quite well. Acceleration on the freeway
onramp was pretty disappointing, but I expected that. I tried shifting
up, which seemed to help, but only after the RPMs were above some level.
If I ever figure out why my tach drive isn't working, I might even find
out what that level is.
I was really glad I didn't have "Electric Powered" stickers all over the
car. I would surely have embarassed the EV community.
At lunch, I drove a coworker around downtown. He thought the electric car
was just too cool. I pulled into a parking spot, coasting in. Only the
sound of the tires on the pavement filled our ears. He joked: "you
stalled it!" Near-silent drive: this is why I drive electric.
For the drive home, drizzle turned into light rain. Traffic turned to
stop & go. So I sat there with the top down, getting wet. The light
summer rain was actually quite pleasant, until the raindrops hit my
glasses, making it hard to see the stopped truck in front of me.
The drive home was a little unnerving. My freeway exchange is really
steep. Too steep. In first, I was crawling along at 15 miles an hour and
not really accelerating. I tried shifting to second, but that just made
things worse: my ahmmeter pinned and my speed remained constant. So I
just bit the bullet and crawled up the ramp, hugging the rightmost lane
so that gas-powered vehicles could travel the freeway at freeway speeds.
I think I'll leave work later when there's less traffic, so that I'll
have more momentum and less uphill stop & go.
Once the freeway flattened out, the electric drove fine. With my pack
quite full (70%), I even had a chance to shift up past 3rd gear and try
some highway speeds. With a little patience, I finally hit 65 MPH in 5th
gear, and was still accelerating when I had to stop my experiment and
slow down for my exit.
The last mile of my journey was the worst: even with a mostly full pack
(60%), the EV does not like steep hills. I think I made things worst by
trying to start out in 3rd (thinking that the lower RPMs would give me
more torque and thus better acceleration, even if it did suck my
batteries dry). My car *crawled* up that hill at 15 MPH, and refused to
accelerate past that until the hill leveled off. I let the car pick up
speed, then coasted down the hill and up the next to my house. Coasting
works great.
When I pulled into my garage, I felt the poor little Auburn Kodiak. It
was pretty warm, but not burning hot. I unfastened my GFI-tripping
battery racks and plugged in for tonight's charge. Even with lunchtime
driving and those steep hills coming home, I had about 60% SOC left on
the meter. I think I'll stop worrying about range now. I have more than
enough lead for my daily commute. I'm beginning to think I should have
gone with 12V batteries for a 192V pack. At 1/2 the range, I'd still have
enough for my daily commute, and I'd probably have a lot less trouble
with hills. I guess it's something to plan for in 2-3 years when I the
pack wears out.
Tomorrow I think I will explore alternate routes. Perhaps shorter hills,
or less uphill stop & go. I definitely will have to experiment with when
& how to shift. There's got to be an optimal technique for going from
dead stop to 60 on an uphill freeway ramp.
Maybe I should move somewhere flatter. :-)
Maybe I should save up for a high-tech 192V battery pack. I'll have to
replace these US2300's in a few years anyway....
--Z
--
Zig Zichterman ziggr@nospam.best.com http://www.best.com/~ziggr
"If you ever cross me again, I will flog you first. Then I will have you
drawn and quartered. I'll roll you in salt and feed you to my horse. You
got that?"
--Lucy Lawless, "Something So Right"
Another EV Rookie Discovers Hills
Subject: Another EV Rookie Learns How to Drive
Sent: 07/29/97 9:22 AM
Received: 07/29/97 9:50 AM
From: Zig Zichterman, ziggr@best.com
Reply-To: EV Mailing List, EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list EV, EV@SJSUVM1.BITNET
At the Insurance Office
-----------------------
I took the rabbit to the CSAA office last week for inspection. My first
exposure to the "it's electric? Really?" dazed onlooker conversation.
Kinda fun.
How's this for irony: after failing to shoot the first picture, the
inspector realized that the camera's battery was dead. She had to run
inside to fetch a recharged battery.
The inspector's manager drives a methanol (or as the inspector said it:
"menthol" :-) powered car.
Going Up Hills
--------------
I'm beginning to get the hang of shifting uphill:
1. If possible, avoid starting up a hill from a dead stop.
2. If starting from a dead stop, start in 1st gear
If I'm not accelerating, I'm probably in 3rd, not 1st.
3. Don't shift up until the RPMs are high and the motor
current starts to drop off. Once the RPMs are high/motor
current starts to drop, it's possible to upshift for more
acceleration.
Learning to Drive
-----------------
I'm really amazed at how dependent I am on engine noise and a tach to
tell me when to shift or when I shift into the wrong gear, which I still
do occasionally. With a broken tach and a quiet motor, I had no
indication that...
..I was starting up hills in 3rd gear instead of 1st. I think I still
have a red palmprint on my forehead from when I slapped it and emitted a
Homer-like "doh!" when I realized this.
I learned this lesson when I couldn't make it up a hill. Before I
completely stopped involuntarily, I pulled off to a driveway and did a
three point turn to head down the hill. In the middle of the three point
turn, my feeble little brain started to wonder: how come I easily go up
the hill in *reverse*, but not *first*?. So I went down to the bottom of
the hill, turned around to face the hill once more, made sure I was in
first, and then gave the throttle a little nudge. Ziiiiiiip!!!! Right up
that hill, accelerating all the way! Doh! I felt like a total idiot. I'm
a *much* happier camper now that I've learned how to drive!
With this newfound skill, I drove to work today. I kept up with freeway
traffic. I accelerated up hills. Not worried about range since my
roundtrip commute's only 14 miles, I upshifted through all 5 gears while
accelerating onto the freeway, and found myself limited by traffic, not
my motor. About the only time I faced that sinking EV feeling was when my
car slowed to 55 going up a hill on the freeway. Oh well, it was time to
move over for my exit anyway.... :-)
Fixin' the Tach
---------------
Oh goody! I got to work on the car over the weekend. First I leaned under
the car to find out why my tach drive would work only intermittently.
Probably a loose connection. I tightened up the connector near the
sensor, and voila! The tach worked! That was easy. I wish I had done that
before going up all those hills in 3rd gear... When I drove the car later
(today), the tach still intermittently went out, and by the end of my
commute, was permanently off again. Time for some tape or locktite.
Fixin' the GFI-Trippin' Rack
----------------------------
Feelin' motivated after the tach success, that evening I disassembled my
GFI-tripping battery rack. Electric cars sure are a lot less greasy than
gas cars (although Noalox does a pretty good grease impersonation: and
it's sticky, too... :-). The powdercoat was in pretty tough shape: the
coat on the front half of the rack's underside was all filled with
bubbles: I guess the battery acid soaked through the paint and caused it
to detach from the metal. The obvious bare spot had a grainy white
substance on it that was probably crystaline residue from acid/metal
contact.
I scrubbed the rack real thorough with windex/ammonia, cut away the loose
paint by the bare spot, and scrubbed the bare spot with baking soda &
water. After a rinse and a few hours to dry, I put a big fat bead of
silicone sealer around the lip of the frame, and covered up the bare
spot. Hopefully the silicone will prevent further failure of the
powdercoat, as well as insulate the racks from the battery tops. The rack
is lifted off the battery tops by a few millimeters now: the air and
silicone ought to provide ample insulation.
As a layered defense, I'm putting heatshrink and insulating washers on
the rack bolts from the kit Mike Brown sent me. I attempted to shrink the
heatshrink with a hair drier. It was *slow*, just like everyone warned
me. Much too slow for my patience (I have the attention span of a gerbil
on Jolt). So I used a lighter. *Much* faster. I burned my thumb on the
lighter top after the 3rd bolt, just like everyone warned me. :-)
I reassembled the rack. The heatshrink was positioned perfectly, even
after the additional few millimeters of air/silicone gap. The bolts
should be insulated from the rack top, which is insulated from the
battery top. Let's see the GFI draw current through *that*!
Cringing just a little, I plugged in my car and waited for the "clack" of
the GFI. The fans started to whir, the K&W's meter went up to my normal
amps, and no "clack" this time. It worked! The batteries were still full
from last night's charge, so the real test will be tonight, when the
batteries suck amps and the tops get a little wet.
--Z
--
Zig Zichterman ziggr@nospam.best.com http://www.best.com/~ziggr
"There are no good choices, only lesser degrees of evil." --Xena
Another EV Rookie Learns How to Drive
Subject: Another EV Rookie's GFI Threw Overnight
Sent: 08/06/97 9:42 AM
Received: 08/06/97 9:50 AM
From: Zig Zichterman, ziggr@best.com
Reply-To: EV Mailing List, EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU
To: Multiple recipients of list EV, EV@SJSUVM1.BITNET
I guess it was inevitable. After over a week of routine
everything-worked-perfect commutes, my little old Rabbit decided to
remind me of its existence.
When I walked down to the garage this morning, my K&W's GFI had thrown.
Did it throw after 1 hour of charge or 8? I had no idea. The car was at
40% SOC when I parked it last night, so if I didn't get enough charge, I
wouldn't have enough juice to make it to work and back.
With trepidation and not a small bit of adrenaline, I turned on my key to
read the SOC meter.
SOC: pinned past 100%.
Whew. Full pack. I guess the GFI blew sometime in the wee hours of the
morning. I have enough for my 14 mile commute. Twice. I still didn't
quite believe it until I got to the top of my first hill: after actually
using the batteries, they still read in the 90-100% range, which is what
they do every morning after a full charge.
With the infrequent nuisance GFI throws, I've been thinking that what my
EV needs is a charge alarm. I need a big red light in my living room that
turns on when my K&W turns off. After years of electrical engineering
courses at college, you'd think I could design one myself. Yeah, right. I
could design something that would either get me electrocuted or my set my
house on fire the first time I tested it out. Has anyone on the list ever
wired up an alarm to their car's charger?
My lazy/easiest to actually build guess is that I would wire in a shunt
between the charger and the pack, and let the small current flow off to a
relay, then run long wires from the garage to the living room, with a
light and power source connected to the wires. The part that scares me is
the shunt/isolator circuit. I guess the voltage isn't that bad, and the
current can be fused out.
What got me really thinking about this was that I also wanted to have a
pack voltage test point in my trunk, where the charger is. Since the two
wires I need to probe for voltage are already the two wires coming out of
my charger, and since I would shunt one of these wires for a charge
alarm, it seems logical to do both tweaks at the same time.
And I though I wouldn't have anything to *do* this weekend... :-)
--Z
--
Zig Zichterman ziggr@nospam.best.com http://www.best.com/~ziggr
"Are you suicidal?" --Xena
Another EV Rookie's GFI Threw Overnight
Subject: Re: Another EV Rookie's GFI Threw Overni
Sent: 08/06/97 4:00 PM
To: ChrisM@PPTVISION.COM
XURQ03A@prodigy.com
xBill Dube', bdube@boulder.nist.gov
Okay, I've just had three emails in 90 minutes all recommending the
same thing: get an isolation transformer. Rather than ignite charger
wars on the EV list again (-:, I'll ask you three helpful folks privately.
I'm interested. I'm thinking about it. I'll eat peanut butter & jelly
sandwich lunches for a month to help pay for the transformer and charger
upgrades if I have to. This nuisance tripping has to stop, and I can't
spend 15 minutes every night cleaning my already-pretty-damn-clean-thank-
you-very-much battery tops just to appease a finicky piece of charging
equipment.
Where should I go for more info?
Can/should I still use my little K&W charger with an isolation
transformer? I'd hate to start replacing multi-hundred dollar pieces of
my car after less than a month on the road. I'm also a little leery of
Zivan after hearing about Bill Dube's higher-voltage charger deaths.
It guess like the isolation transformer would sit between the wall
voltage and the charger's AC inputs. Is it something like this?
K&W
Wall Charger
--------+ +-------------+ +---------+
Hot |------| |--------| |------>
| | transformer | | | to batteries
Neutral |------| |--------| |------>
| +-------------+ | |
| | |
Ground |-----------------------------| Ground |
--------+ +---------+
Wouldn't the GFI still throw if there's a leak from charger output to
chassis?
Using a different (non-GFI protected) charger, wouldn't there still be
lethal 15 amp/120V DC power flowing through the charger's output? How
will the charger protect against the stupid human that touches the right
piece of metal at the wrong time? I love my spouse dearly and would hate
for us to be permanently and prematurely separated just because one of us
inadvertently completes a circuit ... :-)
--Z
--
Zig Zichterman ziggr@nospam.best.com http://www.best.com/~ziggr
Gabrielle: "Another one's fallen for you."
Xena : "Again? Why does this always happen?"
Gabrielle: "The blue eyes, the leather. Some guys just love leather."
Subject: Re: Wanted - Advice on fixing my charging problem
Sent: 08/14/97 10:28 AM
To: EV Mailing List, EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU
marc@HPWRC715.MAYFIELD.HP.COM
>I need your advice with a problem I'm having with charging my EV.
>[snipped 96V K&W Rabbit breaker/GFI tripping fun]
This sounds an awful lot like the GFI-tripping problems my own VW Rabbit
had just weeks ago. Thanks to the kind souls on this list, I found and
fixed it.
On my Rabbit, the moisture on the battery tops was enough to create a
circuit path from a battery terminal to the metal battery racks that
held my front batteries down. No matter how hard I cleaned my battery
tops, the GFI breaker on my K&W would throw.
Mike Brown suggested that I loosen the top racks, lift them off my
batteries by a fraction of an inch, and use small blocks of wood to
keep the racks from touching the batteries. When I did this, the ground
fault circuit disappeared, and I was able to charge my batteries. So
every night I would disassemble my front racks and plug in. The
disassembly was a real pain (and each morning's reassembly was even
worse).
The permanent solution was to
1. pull my front racks off, scrub 'em good, and put a thick bead of
silicone around the inside lip of the racks so that the battery
moisture would have a much harder time contacting the rack tops. I also
sealed up the places where the acid chewed through the rack's powdercoat
paint, exposing bare metal. The silicone took 24 hours to cure, so I had
to leave the rabbit behind and drive The Gas Car for a day. Sigh. :-)
2. get a kit from Electro Automotive that contains 7 little insulating
washers and 7 little pieces of heatshrink tubing. The kit comes with
instructions, but the basic idea is to insulate the rack tops from the
bolts that connect them to the rack bottoms.
3. once a week (or more frequently), pop the hood and clean off the
battery tops. I find it a lot easier to clean if I take the battery cap
off of the battery I'm cleaning, since most of the moisture is under the
speedcap anyway.
After I did steps 1 and 2, my K&W's GFI stopped tripping, and my life is
much simpler. I still do step 3, partially because it's a good thing to
do, and partially because it's an excuse to spend some quality time with
my rabbit... :-)
A fourth step is to get an isolation transformer that sits between wall
power and your K&W. This should *really* prevent those nuisance trips of
your K&W's GFI. I haven't take this step yet.
If you're tripping a breaker other than your K&W's GFI, it might be:
1. the other breaker is also a GFI: two GFIs on the same circuit
sometimes cause trips
2. you're sucking more amps out of the wall than the breaker will allow:
the amps on your K&W meter are always less than the amps being sucked
out of the wall. You mentioned dialing your amps way down, so I don't
think this is your problem.
3. You have a genuine wiring problem that is shorting out the wall socket.
That's the limit of my experience so far. If you have shifting problems
on hills, I can help there, too... :-)
--Z
--
Zig Zichterman ziggr@nospam.best.com http://www.best.com/~ziggr
Gabrielle: "Another one's fallen for you."
Xena : "Again? Why does this always happen?"
Gabrielle: "The blue eyes, the leather. Some guys just love leather."
Subject: Re: Several things on my mind
Sent: 08/15/97 11:38 AM
To: EV Mailing List, EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU
n9ogk@juno.com
>Jack W Doyle, n9ogk@juno.com asks:
>How can one justify the need for voltages higher
>than 144V or current capability higher than 500A in a vehicle other than
>for racing purposes?
I have a 96V VW Rabbit convertible with a 400+ controller (Auburn Kodiak,
don't remember the max current).
I want more volts. I want more current. I want more power. This isn't just
a Tim Allen-style power craving. Yeah, it'd really be fun to have a rear
bumper sticker "you've just been passed by an electric vehicle", but that's
not my *primary* reason for more power. :-)
0-60 MPH in 20+ seconds is annoying. Especially on a busy freeway onramp
with a long line of cranky commuters right behind me.
Once my car hits 55 MPH, I'm powerless: I'm sucking 250-300 amps just to
keep my speed up against wind and rolling resistance. I can slowly
accelerate to 70+ on flat/downhill freeways, but if there's even a slight
bit of hill, I will eventually slow to 55 MPH. This means I have to vacate
the fast lanes on any uphill slope.
On Highway 13, a 65 MPH roller-coaster freeway with hill after hill after
hill, I slow to a truly dangerous 25 MPH crawl. The only way I can keep
it above 55 MPH up the next hill is to roll down the previous hill at 75+
(this works only as long as there isn't any slow traffic in front of me).
When I read of Bill Dube's impending Wabbit horsepower increase, my ears
perked up, my eyes opened wide, and I think I drooled a bit onto my
keyboard. I'm a happy and proud EV owner, but I'm definitely looking around
for an upgrade in a few years. I want an EV that performs just like my
little Integra (ok, Integra might be asking a bit much, but I'd like to at
least keep pace with a Geo Metro when going up hills).
--Z
--
Zig Zichterman ziggr@nospam.best.com http://www.best.com/~ziggr
Gabrielle: "Another one's fallen for you."
Xena : "Again? Why does this always happen?"
Gabrielle: "The blue eyes, the leather. Some guys just love leather."